Coin Community Family of Web Sites
300,000 items to help build your collection! Ken's Numismatic eBay Store US and World Coins, Bullion, and Exonumia. Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer
Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Post Your Papal States Coins - Reverse Chronological Schedule By Ruler

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 30 / Views: 693Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
6895 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2025  4:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
On a recent thread in the World Coins sub-forum http://goccf.com/t/472403, @Bacchus2 linked to his website with a nice collection of Papal States / Vatican City coins.

I know from identification requests and other posts I've seen on CCF that many world coin collectors here have at least a coin or two (and sometimes many more) from Papal States, and thought we coud have a thread devoted just to this historic place (or places, depending on how you look at things

We will go by ruler, initially at one per week, but combining when we have short reigns. As we move back in time and contributions thin out, we will modify the schedule accordingly.

So ... to start
February 10-16: Post your coins of Pius IX (1846-1878)
February 17-23: Gregory XVI and 1846 Sede Vacante
February 24 - March 2: Leo XII (1823-1829), Pius VIII (1829-30), and the Sede Vacantes of 1829, 1830-1831.
March 3 - March 9: Pius VII (1800-1823), 1823 Sede Vacante.

...then we'll see if that's the right pace.

Historical or other relevant commentary welcome.

Questions?

If not, let the posts begin!




Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
Hondo Boguss's Avatar
United States
15745 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2025  02:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo Boguss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good idea, tdziemia. I have two Papal States coins, both from Pius IX.
Papal States 1 Soldo / 5 Cents 1867

Papal States 1 Baiocco 1850

Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
157664 Posts
Bedrock of the Community
NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
16067 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2025  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My only contributions to this thread will be these!

1868 Pius IX 10 soldi:

1866 Pius IX 1 Lira:
Edited by NumisRob
02/11/2025 12:07 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Errers and Varietys's Avatar
United States
54905 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2025  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice examples so far.
Errers and Varietys.
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
157664 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2025  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My only contributions to this thread will be these!
Excellent!
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
6895 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2025  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for getting us started, @Hondo!

I like that those two coins show two very different design styles. The first one looks like lots of other mid-19th century coins from continental Europe: a bust of the sovereign on one side, and a simple statement of the denomination on the other (think of the French centime coppers, etc.).
But that was unusual for Papal coins. The copper coins almost never had a bust of the pope until the 19th century.

The second type is more typical of papal coppers, showing the pope's personal coat of arms on one side, topped with the symbols of his spiritual and secular authority. Pope Pius IX was born Giovanni Maria Mastai-Ferretti, so those are the arms of the Mastai-Ferretti family.

Edited by tdziemia
02/11/2025 1:25 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
6895 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2025  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the addition of NumisRob's nice silver types, we can point out an interesting feature of Papal States coins: their "dual dating" system.

Pius' reign began June 16, 1846.
If we read the inscriptions on the 1 Lira coin we have:
AN XXI (obverse) and 1866 (reverse)
On the 1 Soldo obverse we have
ANN XXI 1867.

Since year 1 of his reign went from 6/16/1846 to 6/15/1847
we can calculate that year 21 went from 6/16/1866 to 6/15/1867.

So regnal year 21 covers parts of two calendar years.

It means if you want to collect a complete date run of a type, you often need twice as many coins as you think!
Edited by tdziemia
02/11/2025 1:23 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
6895 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2025  08:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time to move to Gregory XVI (February 1831-June 1846) and the Sede Vacante of 1846. He was born Bartolomeo Cappellari in the Republic of Venice.

Here is an 1832 50 Baiocchi coin, KM# 1316:



As sometimes occurs, there is a personal link between the imagery and the pope. When Bartolomeo decided to pursue his spiritual vocation, he joined the Calmoldolese order, which was founded by Romualdus (who is pictured on the reverse) early in the 11th century.

This is one of the last Papal States coins to bear religious imagery. There was a coinage reform in 1835, after which the reverses only bore the denomination, the single exception being an 1846 Sede Vacante coin. I know we have a member who specializes in sede vacante types, so maybe it will show up?

Edited by tdziemia
02/17/2025 08:37 am
Bedrock of the Community
Errers and Varietys's Avatar
United States
54905 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2025  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice addition, tdziemia.
Errers and Varietys.
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
157664 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2025  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here is an 1832 50 Baiocchi coin, KM# 1316:
Very nice!
Pillar of the Community
Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2532 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2025  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice 50 Baiocchi coin tdziemia. Sorry, I missed the start of the thread.

Hopefully contributers will give some additional info along with the coin images, that's always extra interesting.
Edited by Bacchus2
02/19/2025 2:51 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
6895 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2025  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for checking in, @Bacchus2.

I thought we'd see coins from more members, but it's early days (most of mine are from the 18th and 17th centuries).

Meanwhile, a little history ...

Papal States began (notionally) in 756 A.D. when Pepin defeated the Lombard king Aistulf, who had reneged on a treaty with the pope, and confiscated papal lands.
In what came to be known as the Donation of Pepin, the southern portion of the former Byzantine Exarchate of Ravenna including the Duchy of the Pentapolis were granted to the Pope, making the pope a significant temporal sovereign for the first time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Pepin
There is no precise record of the territory involved, but it likely covered major parts of the current Italian regions of Romagna (Ravenna and Forli), Marche (Ancona, Pesaro, Urbino), and Lazio (Rome) and smaller bits of Tuscany and Umbria:

Map ot Italy circa 600 A.D.

For centuries, the popes could not muster significant strength to effectively rule these lands, which instead were governed independently as many small city-states (republics, lordships, bishoprics). Only in late medieval to early modern times (15th-16th century) did the popes possess enough power to begin "clawing" back the ruling authority in these places as dynastic lines died out, or through war and diplomacy.
1506 - Republic of Bologna
1532 - Republic of Ancona
1534 - Duchy of Parma and Piacenza (made a hereditary duchy for the son of Pope Paul III)
1598 - Duchy of Ferrara
1624 - Duchy of Urbino (including Gubbio, Pesaro, etc.)

The popes remained significant termporal sovereigns until the end of the 18th century. Finally in 1870 the Papal States as a significant sovereign territory in central Italy disappeared during th eunification of the Italian kingdom.
Edited by tdziemia
02/21/2025 08:26 am
Pillar of the Community
Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2532 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2025  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great bit of history there - thanks for that I find that understanding the context of coins is so much more rewarding.

I've decided to post two of the same coin. The reason is the doubling of the 2 on the reverse. I can't see it being an overstrike and I have two of these examples so it must be fairly common. I'm not entirely sure how or why this was caused.

It's a 5 Baioccho from 1842 and the "B" is for Bologna mint.



Edited by Bacchus2
02/21/2025 04:33 am
Moderator
Learn More...
Dearborn's Avatar
United States
64151 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2025  06:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting topic and some great coins here!

But I don't have any of these older Papal coins to post here.
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
157664 Posts
  Previous TopicReplies: 30 / Views: 693Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.25 seconds to rattle this change. Forums