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tdziemia's Last 20 Posts
| Odd Denominations On Coins - The List
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
 Posted 02/26/2025 08:44 am
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One last coin with an interesting denomination from the Duchy of Urbino: 288.
Copyright Fritz Rudolf Kuenker
The obverse legend of this coin has been translated as "Coin of 18 sedicine" (literally coin of twenty minus two sixteens).
18 times 16 is 288, so the face value of this coin is 288 quattrinos.
Thank god the decimal system came along!  |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Post Your Papal States Coins - Reverse Chronological Schedule By Ruler
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/24/2025 2:04 pm
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@Bacchus, thanks for kicking off the next week's reign(s) with your nice mezzo baiocco.
Due to the small number of contributions thus far, I'm going to break my own schedule, and expand this week's coverage to:
Leo XII (1823-1829) and the Sede Vacante of 1829
Pius VIII (1829-30), and the Sede Vacante of 1830-1831.
Pius VII (1800-1823) and the Sede Vacante of 1823.
For any latecomers, feel free to post your coins of reigns you missed.
I've still got nothing to contribute until the next century, as I lost out on an auction bid last week on a Pius VIII coin that is on my watch list.
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| | Forum: "Post Your..." Gallery Topics |
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| Odd Denominations On Coins - The List
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/23/2025 9:21 pm
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Looking back on this thread, I was shocked to see that the last "roundup" of denominations was in 2017!
Given how comprehensive that list was, it's hard to imagine that there could be more, but ...
I recently found a denomination of a coin from the Duchy of Urbino which is "due terzi da sedicine" which translates to two thirds of sixteen, or 10 2/3. https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2776670
Now ... you can ask "two thirds of sixteen WHAT?" and the plot thickens further, because the answer is ... (drum roll ... ) quattrini!!
So the face value on the coin was 10 2/3 quattrini
So, folks who know early Italian coinage think "Ah, wasn't a quattrino equal to 4 denari? So that would also make this coin a 42 2/3 denari coin which is also missing from the list? (kind of like saying a "quarter" is actually 25 cents).
But wait! There's more! By the 1500s in central Italy where this coin was made, the currency system was no longer denaro-soldo-lira, but was migrating to quattrino-baiocco-scudo. There is evidence that in Urbino at this time there were 18 sedicine (or 288 quattrini) to a scudo.
when this coin was made, so that would make it a 1/27 scudo.
Take your pick (10 2/3 or 1/27) ... it gets added to the list one way or the other. |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Lucca Republic 1 Scudo
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/21/2025 9:15 pm
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I would say there was certainly a planchet defect (the cracks).
I can't say whether the bit of extra metal obverse was from mounting, or a cud.
I hope you are pleased with your purchase. I would be! |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Post Your Papal States Coins - Reverse Chronological Schedule By Ruler
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/20/2025 09:18 am
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Thanks for checking in, @Bacchus2.
I thought we'd see coins from more members, but it's early days (most of mine are from the 18th and 17th centuries).
Meanwhile, a little history ...
Papal States began (notionally) in 756 A.D. when Pepin defeated the Lombard king Aistulf, who had reneged on a treaty with the pope, and confiscated papal lands.
In what came to be known as the Donation of Pepin, the southern portion of the former Byzantine Exarchate of Ravenna including the Duchy of the Pentapolis were granted to the Pope, making the pope a significant temporal sovereign for the first time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Pepin
There is no precise record of the territory involved, but it likely covered major parts of the current Italian regions of Romagna (Ravenna and Forli), Marche (Ancona, Pesaro, Urbino), and Lazio (Rome) and smaller bits of Tuscany and Umbria:
Map ot Italy circa 600 A.D.
For centuries, the popes could not muster significant strength to effectively rule these lands, which instead were governed independently as many small city-states (republics, lordships, bishoprics). Only in late medieval to early modern times (15th-16th century) did the popes possess enough power to begin "clawing" back the ruling authority in these places as dynastic lines died out, or through war and diplomacy.
1506 - Republic of Bologna
1532 - Republic of Ancona
1534 - Duchy of Parma and Piacenza (made a hereditary duchy for the son of Pope Paul III)
1598 - Duchy of Ferrara
1624 - Duchy of Urbino (including Gubbio, Pesaro, etc.)
The popes remained significant termporal sovereigns until the end of the 18th century. Finally in 1870 the Papal States as a significant sovereign territory in central Italy disappeared during th eunification of the Italian kingdom.
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| | Forum: "Post Your..." Gallery Topics |
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| Odd Denominations On Coins - The List
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/20/2025 06:19 am
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Indeed! sometime in the 4 years between these posts, I picked up that 26 quattrini coin:
Also ... Not a new figure for the list, but an interesting one in how it's spelled out.
A 32 quattrini coin of the Duchy of Urbino, spelled out as "doi sedicine" or "two sixteens." https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=13082284 (yes, there was also a one "sedicine" coin).
In the currency system of the time (circa 1600 as the coin is undated, but was struck between 1584 and 1624) I believe the equivalents were 1 scudo = 100 baiocchi = 500 quattrini, so it would have been the equivalent of 6.4 cents (baiocchi).
There was a similarly sized 30 quattrini coin, so possibly the 32 quattrini followed the 30 (i.e. devaluation/inflation).
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| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Post Your Papal States Coins - Reverse Chronological Schedule By Ruler
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/17/2025 08:26 am
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Time to move to Gregory XVI (February 1831-June 1846) and the Sede Vacante of 1846. He was born Bartolomeo Cappellari in the Republic of Venice.
Here is an 1832 50 Baiocchi coin, KM# 1316:
As sometimes occurs, there is a personal link between the imagery and the pope. When Bartolomeo decided to pursue his spiritual vocation, he joined the Calmoldolese order, which was founded by Romualdus (who is pictured on the reverse) early in the 11th century.
This is one of the last Papal States coins to bear religious imagery. There was a coinage reform in 1835, after which the reverses only bore the denomination, the single exception being an 1846 Sede Vacante coin. I know we have a member who specializes in sede vacante types, so maybe it will show up? 
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| | Forum: "Post Your..." Gallery Topics |
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| Vatican City 1973 50 Lira - And More
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/16/2025 08:04 am
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I admit to being pretty ignorant about heraldry, and only reporting what I find elsewhere.
Maybe Italian nobility approached their coats of arms differently than other parts of Europe  .
I think the one that shows up most often on Papal States coins is the Medici arms (six balls); Leo X, Clement VII, Pius IV and Leo XI were all from that family. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Vatican City 1973 50 Lira - And More
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/14/2025 8:39 pm
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It is the Pacca family coat of arms on the coin. Bartolomeo Pacca was the cardinal camerlengo who presided over the conclave (and the coinage) during the Sede Vacante of 1823.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomeo_Pacca
Above it is the umbraculum which replaces the papal tiara during a sede vacante.
I think the Pacca coat of arms is a sort of riff on the ages of man: a young warrior, an old warrior, and bones (a dead warrior). But you can dig on Pacca heraldry (no pun intended) and probably get a better answer.
Last but not least, that is really a lovely coin. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Why Are So Many Ancient Coins Struck Off-Center?
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/12/2025 7:44 pm
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Quote:
1000 coins/hour would be a coin struck every 0.27s.
1000 coins/hr * 1 hr/3600 sec = 1 coin / 3.6 sec.
I agree, however, that's probably not sustainable pace for a whole day.
For what it's worth, if you fast forward to the late 15th century, we know from mintage records in the Low Countries that at the Antwerp and Bruges mints, quantities of around 500,000 per year each of two types were being produced. Taking into account the many Christian feast days in medieval times, I suspect we are talking about the same kind of math. |
| | Forum: Ancient, Greek, Roman, and Medieval Coins |
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| Why Are So Many Ancient Coins Struck Off-Center?
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/12/2025 1:23 pm
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Quote:
In short, ancient (and mediaeval) coins are frequently struck off-centre because, unlike modern mint machinery, there was no device or collar aligning the coin blank with the dies.
That makes a lot of sense. In principle, if everything "fits," that is, the blank is nearly exactly the inside diameter of the lower die, likewise the upper die, then coins should be well centered. But as soon as the blank does not fit snugly, and/or the upper die does not, there is the opportunity for off-center outcome.
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| | Forum: Ancient, Greek, Roman, and Medieval Coins |
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| Post Your Papal States Coins - Reverse Chronological Schedule By Ruler
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tdziemia
Pillar of the Community
United States
6895 Posts |
Posted 02/11/2025 1:22 pm
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With the addition of NumisRob's nice silver types, we can point out an interesting feature of Papal States coins: their "dual dating" system.
Pius' reign began June 16, 1846.
If we read the inscriptions on the 1 Lira coin we have:
AN XXI (obverse) and 1866 (reverse)
On the 1 Soldo obverse we have
ANN XXI 1867.
Since year 1 of his reign went from 6/16/1846 to 6/15/1847
we can calculate that year 21 went from 6/16/1866 to 6/15/1867.
So regnal year 21 covers parts of two calendar years.
It means if you want to collect a complete date run of a type, you often need twice as many coins as you think! |
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I don't have any papal coppers in such nice shape as yours.
