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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,232 |
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New Member
Australia
20 Posts |
I am curious to know the percentage here of physical coin collectors who also have or thought about collecting digital coins, specifically the bitcoin. Is there some way to do a poll?
I make the following points on this digital coin in comparison to physical fiat coins:
1. Limited mintage of 21 million of which 19.5 million have been issued. Unlike what the RAM may do, there is no expansion or printing of additional mintage a year or two or ten down the track. The supply is mathematically fixed.
2. Worldwide usage and demand. Unlike Australian coins limited mostly to 25 million customers, digital is worldwide.
3. Durability. Unlike physical coinage which may corrode or degrade overtime, the digital coin remains at a pure eternal grade.
4. Decentralized and secure. Unlike gold coins for instance, the government would find it very difficult to physically seize like what happened to gold. Going on 14 years now, it doesn't like it will disappear.
So, please tell me why I should not buy 1 bitcoin. At ~$40,000 AUD each, it seems like a bargain compared to the Mars coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
15747 Posts |
My opinion, as demonstrated by Dan Carr:   Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1775 Posts |
Depends on why you really want to own it. Do you want to be in it because 1) it has practical applications? Or 2) for the ROI potential? IMO, BTC does not have any practical applications. I can't use it to buy gas, groceries or whatever. If you want ROI, there are better investments, such as..... A.I. Artificial Intelligence has 8x more potential than the internet had back in the 90's. Plus, A.I. is in its infancy. Imagine investing in AAPL at the first iteration of the iphone & held stock til today. Or google or tesla. You educated yourself in regard to BTC, id suggest you educate yourself in the investment/stocks/charting. Some exposure to BTC I can understand, but to put all your eggs in one basket, is.... foolish. In 10 years you may look like Warren Buffet or you may look like a fool & have lost all your money.
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New Member
 Australia
20 Posts |
So the total mintage here continues to remain the same at 21 million worldwide. Price is now at 90k AUD per digital coin and has surpassed the yearly appreciation of the legendary $2 mars coin (which I still do not have btw).
Give me your arguments against point 1 - 4 from the original post why we shouldn't all be collecting the digitized bitcoin. I would like to add a 5th point, and that is that no serious coin collection will be complete without one of the world's first digital coin ever issued, of which there will only ever be 21 million.
Who thinks (or hopes), perhaps in the future, the RAM will release a digitized Red Poppy? I like to speculate, and it may be a sad turn of events for some, that the day will come where this happens. Trapped into a never-ending abyss of seeking digitized coins of relics from the past.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1775 Posts |
@PoppyHunter, my opinion remains the same. BTC sprung up out of nowhere, backed by nothing, by an anonymous creator. I've been investing/trading since the mid 90's.... IF a publicly traded company became listed based on those specific parameters (which they did during the dotcom bubble), I'd (not) recommend anybody put their entire nest egg into the company. Out of the 1000's of dotcom companies, only a handful survived the crash. IMO, the current crypto market is no different than the environment of the late 90/s-early 00's. I am of the opinion, we're in the late stages of an Everything Bubble (stocks, real estate & crypto) & we're absolutely overdue for a potentially historic pullback. To have some exposure to BTC, sure.... you can make money on it. Since your original post, BTC was around $26,000 US & currently $62k. If you bought, sell half now & play w/ the house money, you can't lose.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1679 Posts |
How does one grade a bitcoin? Are they all MS70?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
A friend bought 1 bitcoin at around 4K, sold it when it reached about 20K, now wishes he had kept it. Bitcoin and similar are speculative, don't buy when it's high like at the moment, just my opinion. The government could shut down all crypto currencies or regulate them someday, part of the risk. Only invest money on speculative investments you can afford to loose, won't hurt your budget or retirement if they go under.
Edited by livingwater
03/01/2024 9:00 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
253 Posts |
If it was called "Bit-token" would you still want to add it to a physical coin collection? What exactly would you add to a physical collection to show that your collection contains a digital coin?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7619 Posts |
I have a very small crypto wallet with Coinspot and they gave me $10 worth of Bitcoin when I joined. It's worth $22 now. Might be a good long term investment, but maybe not. Not sure how I put it in a 2x2 though. :)
View my Coins here, (NOW WITH OVER 16,800 IMAGES).... http://www.coincommunity.org/galler...hp?cat=10048OFEC count = 237 |
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Moderator
Australia
16181 Posts |
I can't tell if the OP is being sarcastically ironic or not. But on the assumption that they aren't:
1. What's the point of talking about "mintage" when nothing is physically being "minted". And what's the point of talking about "21 million units made" when those units are infinitely divisible? One bitcoin isn't a very practical unit of currency, given it's high value. "21 million bitcoin" is the same as saying "2.1 quadrillion satoshis", where 1 satoshi is equal to 1/100,000,000th of a bitcoin.
2. Digital bitcoins are only available to the elite top percentage of the planet that has access to a reliable internet service. A "medium of the masses" it never will be, not until and unless the world enters some kind of Star-Trek-like utopia where nobody is poor and everyone has access to everything on demand. And most sci-fi Star-Trek-like utopias tend to not need money at all.
3. Durability? Don't be ridiculous. Bitcoin are the most ephemeral of assets, powered entirely by faith and the Internet. If the dinosaurs had invented both bitcoin and physical gold coins, guess which ones would still be around today. It wouldn't be dinocoin.
4. I've never understood why bitcoin is so popular with the we-hate-the-government crowd. If you don't trust the government to run the currency in your best interest, why trust the shadowy people and algorithms in charge of bitcoin? Just because they're anti-government, and you're anti-government, doesn't mean you're on the same side.
5. If it doesn't fit in a 2x2, I don't really want it. There's literally nothing to "collect" with bitcoin, apart from those gimmicky token-medals. I also have a AU$1000 spend limit per item, so my bitcoin investment would be more in the millibitcoin range at most.
Other points against "collecting bitcoins" - they're fungible, and there's no way that a collector can make them non-fungible. This bitcoin over here is utterly indistinguishable from that bitcoin over there. There is therefore no reason to ever collect more than one - whichever unit or subunit of bitcoin you'd care to nominate. And a "collection" with only one item in it isn't really a collection.
My opinion: bitcoin and the billion other flavours of ethereal quasi-money are functionally identical to non-blue-chip stocks: they are intrinsically worthless ones and zeros that everyone is pointing at and saying "those ones and zeros are gonna become more valuable today" - which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy only as long as the faithful keep the faith. Feel free to "speculate" in them if you wish, and if they keep going up, then bully for you. Don't forget, any "profits" you make don't count until you actually sell your bitcoin and convert it into normal money, or find someone prepared to exchange your bitcoin for something less ephemeral. You can also feel free to go down to the casino and "speculate" on the pokies. But I see nothing in either of those three activities - the stock market, bitcoin, or casino gambling - that directly qualifies as "collecting" or "numismatics".
I'm not strictly against gambling, whether that be at the casino, in bitcoin, or on the stock market. It's just not something I choose to participate in.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
Australia
174 Posts |
The tax implications of selling or paying for anythiing with Bitcoin, etc, isn't really all that favourable for most. Bitcoin is an invisible asset entity because you can't see it or hold it in your hand. You can never really own it.
As I understand it, there's a capital gains tax liability of 50% if the Bitcoin was bought 12 months or more ago. Then whatever $ profit made ( if you're lucky enough) after the disposal of the Bitcoin - either after selling or paying for something with one - the transaction is treated by the ATO as an asset and whatever $ nett profit made after the deduction of the 50% CGT ( if held for 12 months or more ) the $ nett profit left after deducting the 50% CGT tax has to be included in your annual tax return. A double whammy !
PoppyHunter you make some very interesting points. I'd like to share my views.
Durability :- the only Australian coins that I'm aware of which can/will corrode or degrade are the $1 and $2 coins housed in those plastic PVC pocket pages. The PVC and the usual atmospheric changes ensure this will happen,and more likely if the album the $1 and $2 coins are housed in is laid flat. The $1 and $2 coins will tone, with especially the earlier $1 and $2 coins usually getting slight pitting and/or pock like looking holes on them.
" the digital coin remains at a pure eternal grade " - a good point although from my perspective " a pure eternal grade " can only be reliant on its real value at any given time.
As you probably know, major banks around the world are scurrying to " create " their own digital " currency " to counter this Bitcoin digital $ trillions phenominon because of the realistic potential of the digital " currency " undermining the major world banks' dominance of both local and international financial transactions.
Ultimately, a profit, be it on the stock market, gold, or a digital " currency ", can only be made at the expense of other peoples' losses.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7619 Posts |
I just logged into my crypto account. Pepe is going through the roof. Hope it keeps going. My investment has quadrupled, my $15.50 is now $63.  Bitcoin has only doubled. |
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Moderator
United States
157664 Posts |
Sap nailed it!   |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,232 |
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