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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,594 |
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Valued Member
Canada
101 Posts |
Hi collectors, I am still trying to understand how the RCM system works. as shown in the image, "EXCLUSIVE Masters Club 2 oz. Pure Silver 1943 Half-Dollar - Mintage: 4,000 (2018)" is limited to two purchases per household(account or addresses?)  Assuming my assumption is correct, then how come some dealers in ebay could have 40+ of this coin for sale?  If some dealers can get directly whatever amount of this coin from RCM, then what's the point of MC exclusive?
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21593 Posts |
Because of the limited mintage, the RCM is attempting to make it fair enough for those who really want an example, have a better chance of getting at least one. The RCM looks at the addresses of the applicants on their computer files, that wish to buy this product. To skirt around this regulation, use your relatives or trusted friends with addresses different to yours. Dealers probably have a quota of 10 or more, and they probably trade between themselves in order to better meet demand, albeit for perhaps at a slightly higher price.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
11027 Posts |
Quote:Assuming my assumption is correct, then how come some dealers in ebay could have 40+ of this coin for sale? At least two possibilities come to mind: 1. Back in 2018, only 90% of the maximum mintage was reserved for MC members. The other 10% was available to dealers. 2. MC Exclusive coins were only exclusive for 45 days after release. If a coin did not sell out by this time, it was made available to all. IIRC, this particular MC coin did not sell out, so it became generally available. Note: The Mint revamped the MC program last year, so these provisions may have changed.Of course, the multiple accounts/addresses tactic also worked.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Valued Member
 Canada
101 Posts |
Thanks sel and comments for the info. That makes sense now, especially the 10% reservation to dealers.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21593 Posts |
With the Royal Australian Mint, I have never taken a stag position with new issue NCLT from the Mint.
Why? For the most part my experience is that the Mint tries, like any other business, to maximize their profits. In the case of new issue NCLT, the Mint fixes the new issue mint product price at the maximum that they think the market will bear. In most cases, there is no profit left to be made by those collectors who buy new issue Mint product, if they attempt to re sell in the numismatic after market.
I do have a few proof silver NCLT products, but they were bought as cherry picks, many years later, at or near their melt value.
I read all of the marketing hype for new issues that is printed and given out for free by the dealers, but for window shopping purposes only. I just like to see what is currently available. Almost all new issue Mint product is made to very high standards. They are very attractively packaged - that is part of the hype. But for me at least, value for money is just not there.
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Valued Member
Canada
81 Posts |
Quote: "multiple accounts/addresses tactic also worked" There is a bit of a problem with this logic. If it was a "regular" limitation like the limit on circulation packs, then yes, it would work. But this is *MC exclusive*. All your friends and relatives have to be at a high MC tier. And it is not only the official dealers who are getting these coins in quantities. Some ebay seller also have more than the "limit".
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Valued Member
 Canada
101 Posts |
Hopefully, RCM is not lying on the mintage number. Otherwise, those MC exclusive coins really have no real value and we should go for bullion coins instead. And I do think most of those non-MC exclusive coins do not worth the price. As a collector, I want to make sure I am collecting something meaningful. And the only way to show this is the secondary market price of our collection goes up along time. I do agree what sel said, it is better to get coins from the secondary market. After more than three years, the ebay aution price should reflect their real value. The downside is you may miss some real good low mintage coin.
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Valued Member
 Canada
101 Posts |
Quote: Some ebay seller also have more than the "limit". . Is it possible that those are fake coins? I know that counterfeit is a huge problem for ancient coins, even the third party certificate slab could be fake. But I am not sure about modern commemorative coin.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
663 Posts |
Welcome @zhuyuecai Quote:If some dealers can get directly whatever amount of this coin from RCM, then what's the point of MC exclusive? That is a darned fine question... As noted earlier, the exclusivity is simply a period where the coin is open for MC members only. At the end of that period, it is fair game. Given the current size of the RCM NCLT market, a mintage of 4,000 is going to guarantee there will be items left unsold at the end of the MC exclusivity. Many coins with that size of mintage never sell out. If they were serious, they would cap 2oz Silver at 250 or worst case 500. That would be an exclusive that may justify this type of premium. Quote: As a collector, I want to make sure I am collecting something meaningful. This is where many who buy NCLT come unstuck. You need to be clear on why you want to acquire a coin: - If you are an investor... Buy bullion, or better yet stocks & bonds. NCLT is not a good investment and while you can cherry pick periods where certain items have gained in value, you can also see the converse. Investors stay away. - If you are a speculator... Fair ball but be prepared to lose more than you win in the NCLT market place and always be ready to dump a losing position when it no longer has legs. - If you are a collector... Clarify in your mind what you want your collection to be and then add, grow, and evolve the collection... sell items that no longer meet your goals but remember the collection is the focus; not the price of any individual item. Collectors follow their passions in odd areas, be it coins, horse brasses, doulton figurines, guitars, beanie babies... what ever your interests are... None of these items have an intrinsic or retail value the same way that an ounce of gold or a $10 bill has; any monetary value is purely between the buyer and the seller. You are less concerned about price and resale vs. whether the item fits your collection and can you afford it at the time you want to buy. Collecting is a hobby... Much like Golf or Scuba Diving... You don't expect an ROI on the round fees or your clubs or your dive gear... You will get a return on coins but in NCLT, you will likely lose more than win on the $$ balance sheet. You have to offset that with how much you enjoy what you are doing and is that worth something to you. Of course folks flip between all 3 positions on certain items... I am primarily a collector but have number of bullion coins that I will part with if the price is right... I also have a number of items where I have more than my collection requires and will happily sell if I can get my act together  . If the potential resale value outweighs aesthetics or collection integrity in your opinion then you probably shouldn't buy NCLT. Quote: Is it possible that those are fake coins? Possible - Yes. This coin looks legit from the little I can see in the picture but I have seen certain NCLT on auction sites (Gold Superman is common) that is clearly counterfeit so as always on a secondary auction site or ebay, make sure you do your homework and research. Sites like Heritage will stand by their auction product so it is fairly safe to buy there but not all are equally diligent.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
11027 Posts |
Quote: Quote: "multiple accounts/addresses tactic also worked"
There is a bit of a problem with this logic. Actually, it's rather simple to do. I've read about collectors who created multiple accounts using multiple names/addresses and then made purchases from all of them to maintain MC membership on multiple accounts. Quick and easy!
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
11027 Posts |
Quote: As a collector, I want to make sure I am collecting something meaningful. vonigohcr has provided solid insights and advice that should be digested and strongly considered before pursing a large / expensive NCLT collection. If you have a strong desire to collect coins that stand a good chance of having their selling price advance in the secondary market, I would suggest sticking with key date circulation coins in higher uncirculated grades. As long as there are collectors, there will be demand for these coins and you will thus have the best chance of recouping your initial investment and even making a few dollars. NCLT "investing" is far more risky! I consider my Canadian NCLT collection of silver dollars (SDs) to be a pure collecting pursuit. I have not purchased a single one with thoughts of price appreciation and/or future profits. In my mind, each SD I purchase becomes essentially "worthless" as I don't look to sell any of them and I don't closely track their market value over time. (I do have a sense of the market to be sure, but I do not make regular checks on each of the coins.) It's important for me to point out, however, that I don't spend huge amounts each year on my Canadian NCLT SD collection - silver NCLT dollars are not $1,000 items and my primary focus is elsewhere in numismatics.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Valued Member
 Canada
101 Posts |
Thanks @vonigohcr and @commems for your replies. I now have a clear idea of how I should run my collection. Which might be similar to what @vonigohcr describes. I did start selling coins in ebay, and is struggling with the international shipment fee calculation, anyway, this is not related to the topic. Just back to the topic, I think a safe pick would be those MC exclusive with good design, mintage lower than 2500, and price range between $100 to $300(1 to 2 oz silver basically). However, the factor of good design is really objective and up to the collectors. And the window open to get some premium in the secondary market is in the first 1 or two years when the hype is still there. After that, it's not guarantee. I think the RCM could do better by releasing coins in the same series one by one in multiple years( minimum 5), just to keep the hype for the old coins. Now they tends to push out the a series in one or two year. This is really not good. Moreover, the release baby feet for multiple years, same design, omg.
Edited by zhuyuecai 08/13/2021 11:39 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2407 Posts |
Quote: However, the factor of good design is really objective and up to the collectors. I think you meant subjective. However, in America these days, objectivity is indeed subjective. Either way you are probably right!  BTW... 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1025 Posts |
Master Club Exclusive coins are now very hard to find at dealers. It was changed about 2 years ago, I think? At one point when I received the advance notice for MC exclusives, I would also get a notice from another dealer regarding the same MC exclusive. This is no longer happening. I gather RCM decided these are now primarily for their MC members. You may find that auctions do have them at times but dealers rarely do lately and if they do, I bet they are selling them on ebay privately. JustMy2cents.
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Valued Member
 Canada
101 Posts |
Thanks @New1954 for the updated information. Yes, I did search on ebay and the quantity of 2020 and 2021 MC coins for sale looks normal to me. At least non of the seller has more than 3 available.
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