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Help Grading 1870 Japan 1 Yen

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New Member

Australia
2 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2020  9:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Blackfish50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have two of these coins and being very new to the
community I thought I'd seek a bit of help please.

Here is what I have so far.

1870 Japan 1 Yen standard circulated coin.
Year 3 Emperor Meiji 1867-1912. Silver .999
Reeded edge.
Obverse:Dragon within beaded circle, legends above,
written value below.
Reverse:Sunburst crest within beaded circle and wreath,
chrysanthemum between two paulownia flowers above.
Type: 1 ? Going by ¥ symbol in frame.

Note# missing beads on inner circle.(obverse)

I have weighed them on kitchen scales and there is a
difference in weight, could this be from being in
circulation or possibly fakes?

I chance a guess at an AU scale?

Do they have Value?








Thanks
Edited by Blackfish50
09/24/2020 04:07 am
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2020  04:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
33743 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2020  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe someone familiar with this series could comment. I'm seeing some red flags regarding their authenticity. Many signs of casting.
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2021  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manosgerms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I collect all the Meiji issues and these do not look authentic to me as they stand.

Firstly, the strikes are very "weak" and the wear really doesn't look realistic. This can happen if the coin has suffered environmental damage however we don't see other characteristics of that in these cases.

Secondly, the missing beads at the 12 o'clock position on both coins are very strange and not in any of the variants I know. I have around 20 examples of the 1870 1 yen myself and whilst that doesn't cover all the variants I am fairly confident I have seen most if not all of them.
Thirdly, the size of the beads appears to change in the ring as well as the spacing. This is a big flag to my mind.
Fourthly, both of these appear to be a type 2 which is quite a bit rarer than a type 1 ( you can tell because the bottom left stroke of the yen character is as long as the bottom right - in type 1 it would be more like a dot). Whilst it is certainly possible to encounter two type 2s in succession it is fairly unlikely so a small yellow flag rather than anything else.

Finally, I would like to know how different the weight is from the 26.96 official weight.
I have never seen a coin I considered authentic (and I do have almost all my coins graded by NGC or PCGS generally) that weighed less than 26.4g, and those weighing that sort of number generally had a huge amount of wear to them. A coin looking like yours should weigh at least 26.6 grams realistically.

So to my mind these are medium quality fakes. It is possible that they are still silver (if the weight checks out and they are not say 1.5 times as thick as the regular coin) but I would imagine real silver fakes would be made a little better (as the aim would be to pass off regular silver as a coin with significant numismatic value).
I could, of course, be wrong, but I can tell you the likelyhood of that if you let me know more details as to where you got them from as there is a Bayesian probability adjustment that can be made based on context - if for example your great grandfather brought them from Japan before WWII that does change the possibilities a bit.
New Member
Japan
33 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2021  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dnas to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say they are most definitely cast fakes.

The raised surfaces have a rough grainy look.
There are marks on both coins showing some natural damage to the original coin, that have been duplicated on both of these samples.
That includes the missing beads at 12 o'clock as mentioned, and a streak on the dot at 7 o'clock.


The silver content is 0.900 not 0.999
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