1826 Netherlands East Indies (Sumatra) - ¼ Stuiver - Fake/Counterfeit Or Real?

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Author	Replies: 13 / Views: 494
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 6:08 pm 1826 Netherlands East Indies (Sumatra) - ¼ Stuiver There is a chance that this is just a counterfeit coin - so I'm going to have to research it out some.... weight of this coin is 2.33g and measures 20.7mm Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff

Hondo Boguss Bedrock of the Community United States 15745 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 7:38 pm What is your concern, Dearborn? Weight is a tad low, but probably within variance considering the wear. Diameter is correct. I have similar coin but don't have the measurements. Netherlands East Indies 1 Cent / Duit 1836 Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 8:16 pm My main concern is from Numista that there are known 1826 AND 1836 coins of counterfeits made From Numista: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6605.html Quote: Comments: Varieties exist, because different dies were used. There are English counterfeits known for the 1/4 Stuiver coins of 1826 and 1836. The 1826 counterfeits with a beaded rim are KM# Tn6 (Sumatra / Singapore Merchants / Token Coinage) and Singh# 12 (Singapore / Group C: Imitations). Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
Hondo Boguss Bedrock of the Community United States 15745 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 9:23 pm Hmmm. The genuine ones have a beaded rim, as does yours. I wonder how you can differentiate the counterfeits from the real deal? Note - you've sent me down a rabbit hole!!! Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 9:54 pm yeah, I fell in first - I bought this coin a few weeks ago and it finally came in, THEN I went to Numista and saw that notation.. So, I'm hoping that somebody that really knows about this coin will help out. Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 10:05 pm Ok Hondo, take a good look at the tail end of the 2 in the date, then compare it to this Numista link, the coin with the beads around the rim, Then look and compare to this Numista link to a same date coin with no beads... https://1826 Netherlands East Indies (Sumatra) - ¼ Stuiveren.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6605.html (KM#287) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces42173.html (KM#Tn6) - Labeled on Numista as "English Counterfeit" - same KM # that I posted above, but Numista relates that to a 'beaded coin, and this is not.. So that is why I'm confused. Numista seem to contradict itself. Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
BCTokens Valued Member Canada 109 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 10:16 pm I have a Krause catalogue of world coins of the 19th century. In it are two listings: KM#287 which is the 1/4 stuiver minted in Utrecht, and Tn1 which is the token minted in Birmingham. Fortunately both illustrations are 1826. Besides the beaded border (which yours has) there are also minor differences in the font and the spacing of the text. Yours isn't exactly like either image. In the date, the digit 1 on the 1/4 stuiver has a sloping flag, while in the token, the digit 1 has a horizontal flag, like yours. Based on this, if your coin is genuine, it is the token. It is quite likely that there was more than one die, which could account for the differences in spacing of the text. Jan Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 10:57 pm ok, I see that. Thanks for pointing that out to me. On my coin on the 1 has the (horizontal flag) which matches KM #287. KM # Tn6 has that sloping flag on the 1 (according to Numista - with the Tn6 being the English Counterfeit.) But, with the 2, my coin has a vertical 'flag' at the terminus of it (like Tn6), and the 287 has the sloping flag. So it seems like my coin has a little bit of both.. . You see what I mean? If not tomorrow, I'll highlight the differences. Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
BCTokens Valued Member Canada 109 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 11:11 pm I can see why you are confused. Another difference in the digit 2 is that the top loop is narrow in one, and wider in the other. Even more confusing is that the image of the 1/4 stuiver in the Krause catalog matches the image of the token in Numista, while the image of the token in the Krause catalog matches the 1/4 stuiver in Numista. The images are reversed! So which one (Krause or Numista) is correct? Jan Report this Post to the Staff
BCTokens Valued Member Canada 109 Posts	Posted 07/31/2024 11:27 pm Here are the images from Krause: Report this Post to the Staff
BCTokens Valued Member Canada 109 Posts	Posted 08/01/2024 12:24 am I found the following images on the NGC website: This is KM#287: and this is Tn6: In addition, KM#287 should weigh 3.01gm, while Tn6 is lighter. Jan Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 08/02/2024 10:26 pm Thanks BC for all this information - now I just need to put it together with my coin and figure out which one it is.. Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 64151 Posts	Posted 08/02/2024 10:32 pm My coin had the 1 from one (the KM#Tn6) and the 2 from the other (KM#287) Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
arkadyn Valued Member United States 130 Posts	Posted 08/09/2024 3:33 pm Krause pictures should not be trusted blindly, they frequently have wrong images. They were terribly understaffed and were overwhelmed with the data/pictures/descriptions. I have been a Krause contributor for years, and had to correct many things, including pictures, Report this Post to the Staff
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1826 Netherlands East Indies (Sumatra) - ¼ Stuiver - Counterfeit Or Real?