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Do We Need Larger Denomination Circulation Coins?

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OzLeigh's Avatar
Australia
215 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2024  8:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add OzLeigh to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Something's wrong when your country's largest denomination circulation coin won't even buy you a loaf of bread.

Surely larger denomination coins are on the horizon or are we heading for a "coinless" society with only notes in circulation?
Edited by OzLeigh
01/04/2024 8:37 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2024  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins will disappear before notes, and then both will eventually disappear.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16181 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2024  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "problems" with coins are:

- Inconvenience. Carrying around enough coins to purchase something worthwhile is bulky and heavy. Once a populace gets used to using paper notes over coins, coins generally cease increasing in face value and eventually disappear altogether.

- Counterfeiting. Technology has advanced now to the point where it's relatively easy for organized crime to mass-produce large quantities of high-quality fake coins. Modern high-value coins tend to have lots of anti-counterfeiting widgets, but those are only as good as the public's awareness and use of them. Since the recent upgrades to the British £1 coin, the Australian $2 coin is probably now one of the best value-for-money coins to fake, it's small, relatively easy (no anti-counterfeiting widgets) and in common use. And much of the cost benefits to introducing a new high-value coin are reduced or eliminated, if you have to increase the cost of production by adding anti-counterfeiting devices.

- The invention of polymer notes as a viable alternative to coins. A big argument during the 20th century that drove the re-introduction of high-value coins was the rapid rate of deterioration of a high-circulation paper note. "A $1 note lasts six months, a $1 coin lasts thirty years" was the kind of statistic thrown around. But the invention of polymer notes has given "paper money" a renewed lease on life, because a polymer note lasts almost as long as a metal coin in circulation. Here in Australia in the early 1990s, the Mint was obviously lobbying for introducing a bimetallic $5 coin to replace the paper $5 note - but the polymer $5 note won out. Now, with polymer entrenched, we're never likely going to see a $5 circulation coin. If anything, it would go the other way around: $1 and $2 coins would be replaced with polymer notes, and all coins below $1 eliminated.

But ultimately, the push towards cashlessness will see fewer and fewer new cash types, coin or note, introduced.
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Russian Federation
4934 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2024  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Something's wrong when your country's largest denomination circulation coin won't even buy you a loaf of bread.

Surely larger denomination coins are on the horizon or are we heading for a "coinless" society with only notes in circulation?
Depends on the country. My current country's largest denomination (10 NIS = 4 AUD) can buy about a kilogram of bread. I've personally seen people paying for their grocery shopping with nothing but a handful of coins.
Meanwhile many other places, especially those prone to hyperinflation, use (almost) only notes in daily life, and their only coins are NCLT, and/or have uselessly low face values. In particular, Belarus was a coinless society for twenty years until the 2014 redenomination.

Overall I'm unconvinced that coinlessness would occur on a large scale prior to full cashlessness; there's an ongoing push to eliminate larger denominations of cash, and we could plausibly be heading in a direction where the largest circulating note wouldn't buy much and if you don't want to pay with a big stack of bills you go cashless.
(OTOH there is, at least outside the USA, also an ongoing push to eliminate smaller denominations of coinage. Probably not a problem in Australia*, but can be relevant in some place where the largest circulating coin is closer to a US quarter than an Australian $2 in purchasing value.)

I'd be surprised if any polymer note can last anywhere near as much as... oh let's say your typical 1965 quarter, or, for the Australians in the audience, your typical 1966 20 cent. The Australian $5 polymer notes I've seen at coin fairs in Russia were already horribly worn down and it hadn't even been that long.


*) It could still theoretically happen, though; the Australian 50 cent coin is outrageously large (by the standards of most everywhere that isn't Australia) and the 20 cent coin isn't that much smaller, so there could plausibly be a push to eliminate those because of that, which leaves us with the $1, $2, and 10 cents [I'd be surprised if the 5 cent piece lasts very long]. If the large denominations get replaced with notes there could swiftly be no coins at all.
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SallyG's Avatar
Australia
253 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2024  01:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SallyG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have wondered if they would ever resort to introducing notes with a barcode on them. Maybe I am a bit paranoid or cynical but I feel the push to a cashless society has an element of 'big brother' tracking about it. Digital transactions can be traced and taxed which of course would suit Governments and tax offices. Having a barcoded note would mean that it can be traded among people just like cash can now but it would only register when the barcode is read by a reader such as the note readers at some checkouts like those at the supermarkets.

I can't see us going completely cashless because small value transactions- think a drink or spring roll at weekend markets for example - would be too costly. The vendor has to pay for a card reader, the power and then tax on the income (things not necessarily paid for now). I think people will still want to carry out small value transactions so a means to do so is still needed. A barcoded note might be something that allows cash transactions to continue and also suit the 'big brothers'?
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2024  04:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinfrog summed it up well.
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Ballyhoo's Avatar
United States
1451 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2024  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is why I do not believe in a cashless society. Modern technology, digital currency, requires components dependent heavily on sattelite transmission. These are extremely valnerable to solar disruption and unforeseen glitches which could and do occur. Second, remember the cyber attack on the Colonial pipe line? When, and not if, that happens to a finacial network how will you pay for anything? On the subject, larger denominations of coin, we only need to look back on history.
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ijn1944's Avatar
United States
16857 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2024  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Then comes an array of post-apocalyptic tribal enterprises, underpinned by bartering.
Edited by ijn1944
01/07/2024 10:57 am
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triggersmob's Avatar
Australia
7619 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2024  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add triggersmob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could you imagine having to collect all the $5 colourised coins as well. No thanks.
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