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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2981 Posts |
Quote:
are the years meant to be reversed for mintages? Thanks for catching my error. Yes the years were reversed but now corrected. Quote:
Or have they made a coin with a potentially popular theme available to a larger audience? If that was the case, why not double the mintage to 10,000 or make it unlimited. Increasing the mintage only dilutes the value of the coin. We see the Mint doing it to other coins. The most recent example is the 2022 Black Gold Otter coin where the they increased the mintage from 4500 to 6500 from the previous year. Due to the increased mintage every dealer has it in stock at issue price. Because supply outstrips demand, you can easily find it for below issue price. Soon you will be able to get that coin and the new UFO coin at 50% discount at auctions. As a collector I would hate to see my collection devalued because of increased mintage. Bullion value is not something I look forward to.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
11023 Posts |
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If that was the case, why not double the mintage to 10,000 or make it unlimited. Exactly! Make the mintage unlimited within an ordering window (e.g., six months, a year) and let the market decide how scarce a particular coin will be instead of the artificial scarcities created by the Mint with its mintage limits. Quote:
Increasing the mintage only dilutes the value of the coin. Not necessarily true. It only dilutes values if a limited availability situation is created on purpose by establishing unnecessary scarcities with early issues. Make mintages unlimited/to demand from the start and the situation goes away as market "demand" drives the original supply from Day 1. Quote:
Due to the increased mintage every dealer has it in stock at issue price. Because supply outstrips demand, you can easily find it for below issue price. My proposal would wipe away this situation. If the market naturally finds its own level (i.e., mintage amount) at the time the coin is released, future demand/new collectors of a series will likely put pressure on available supply and organic market value appreciation will take place. I'm not stupid, I understand some of the reasons why the Mint creates artificial scarcities at the start of some series. One reason is that it enables them to excite collectors/speculators into a frenzy that allows them to charge higher prices and increase mintage amounts in the future without much push back - time has proven that while collectors may complain about the price/mintage increases, the majority continue to buy the coins - verified by sales figures. I would just prefer a new business model to be employed.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Pillar of the Community
  Canada
663 Posts |
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Increasing the mintage only dilutes the value of the coin. There is some truth in that but if you look at the coins whose market value has either matched issue price or appreciated there are usually two attributes in play: 1) Either the design is outstanding or the subject matter is compelling. 2) The mintage or availability is low. Availability is often tied to mintage but not always when looking at the RCM's model of small 1st runs for newly released coins. Examples of this are: - 2008/2009 Gold $300 Moon Mask series... generally resells at a premium over bullion (Bullion has appreciated over issue price) but mintage in the 500 range. - 2007 Silver Loon baby series... Mintages 1,911 -> 3,200 included a compelling package of trinkets for new parents. - 2008/2009 $20 Hockey Mask series... Mintages 95->748... All sell at a premium over issue... Hockey is very popular in Canada and mintages are low. - Many of the recent $200 Gold coins are sub 300 mintage... they are not that easy to find and often carry a premium over issue price. It seems that a "magic" number for silver is <2,000 and for gold <300 and that will provide a scarcity floor for a compelling coin to retain value... Higher mintages, in general, leave the coin very available and only very compelling coins will carry a premium. The current trend of RCM issuing Silver in the 5,000->10,000 range guarantees a Franklin Mint level of value appreciation. It is also why NCLT Silver Dollars from the '70s and '80s are mostly available below issue price as their mintages were in the hundreds of thousands ranging to over half a million in some years. The first NCLT SD that has any real appreciated value beyond issue is the 2002 Queen Mother... Topical as it was the year of her death and mintage was the first SD less than 10,000 in an era where mintages exceeding 100,000 were common This is the same in the circulating side of the hobby... Scarcity, especially at higher grades, is what leads market pricing. NCLT are all presumed to be PR-69/PR-70 but the jump in price between a MS-60 and a MS-65 within a given coin and year, especially in the silver series pre1968 is driven directly by the relative availability of the date since designs tend not to change year over year.
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New Member
Canada
6 Posts |
in reality, the RCM doesn't care about after-market sales or the price of the coin on the secondary market. The mint is the profit-oriented only body The mint has a network of worldwide dealers, including ebay sellers as well. at least 70% of all releases are distributed through dealers' networks. They can manipulate the price of the coin and create a temporary high demand for some coins situation in order to rise the price. If the dealers cannot release the products, especially on ebay, they drop the price below official RCM releases. Unfortunately, 60-70% of the RCM coins lose or do not gain value on the secondary market. it's my personal opinion after 10 years of buying and selling RCM coins. I agree the mintage of the RCM coins is too high. The Thems of the coins are primarily oriented to the Canadian market. |
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
11023 Posts |
Subtle, but effective design approach on the two large-format "Last Penny" coins - the reverse design of the 2012 cent taking the place of the "0" in "2022". I like it! (But not enough to purchase either coin.)
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
11023 Posts |
$30 Silver 100th Anniversary of the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair Coin
The more I view it, the more I like it!
The design includes multiple elements that cover the primary components found at the Fair. I think the coin's larger format - 50 mm - provides ample space for the multiple elements to blend well and not appear as over-crowded.
I'm not likely to purchase the coin, but that doesn't stop me from appreciating its design! I think Glen Green (the designer of the coin's commemorative reverse) and the Mint did a nice job with the piece!
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Valued Member
Canada
366 Posts |
indeed, the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair Coin looks very nice. I would buy it if I work for the Royal.
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New Member
Canada
9 Posts |
Hey All, first post here as a new member! Been stacking physical silver, all RCM stuff for 3 years now. What do all think of the 5kg silver Commemorative Penny? Mintage of 150. Would it be a good investment, or not? https://www.mint.ca/en-us/shopping/...-last-penny-$11,000 Canadian represents a steep premium, but of course you're paying for rarity. What about 10 or 20 years from now? Edited by atc250r
12/11/2022 4:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2405 Posts |
I wouldn't buy any RCM coin as an investment. Buy because you like it and if you make money on the resale then that is a bonus. |
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
11023 Posts |
@atc250r: I would also recommend against buying most Mint NCLT coin products - most prove to not be good investments.
Here's a personal example:
In 2008, the Mint marked its Centennial with a variety of coins. Though I don't collect/pursue coins of the type, I was intrigued by the Mint's $50, five-ounce, large format silver coin that featured the original Ottawa Mint building. I considered its $369.95 CAD issue price to be a bit too steep, however, so I passed on it.
Still, I liked it. So, I kept my eyes open for one at a price that worked for me. It took a decade, but I found one for ~$145 CAD - much less than half issue price! So, even after 10 years - and an increase in the spot price of silver - I was still able to purchase the coin for a lower price than what the Mint originally asked - a very poor ROI. Apply the same percentages to an $11,000 coin and the drop is quite a bit more significant!
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Edited by commems
12/11/2022 6:43 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
366 Posts |
I purchased last year's 5 kilo coin Bluenose. I wouldn't buy any 5 kilo coin agin, because these giant coins are not portable. The package was so big that Post Canada refused to deliver it. I had to call a cab to grab it then drag it home:  Once opened, it looked like this:  The package will permanently occupy two square feet at your home. If you decided to sell it later, it would be a pain to ship it due to the large size. |
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Valued Member
Canada
366 Posts |
In terms of price appreciation, I can give you one data point. GateWest has 2014 Five-Kilo 'National Aboriginal Veterans Monument' at issue price: $10,500.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2981 Posts |
Quote:What do all think of the 5kg silver Commemorative Penny? Mintage of 150. Would it be a good investment, or not? https://www.mint.ca/en-us/shopping/.-last-penny-$11,000 Canadian represents a steep premium, but of course you're paying for rarity. What about 10 or 20 years from now? Rarity is relative to demand. Very expensive NCLT like 5 KG coins are hard to re-sell because very few coin collectors can afford them unless they have deep pockets. That is why they make only 150 of them. Since the demand for expensive NCLT is low it is almost impossible for it to appreciate in value.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
11023 Posts |
I wonder how much of the issue price of the Bluenose 5 Kg coin was devoted to covering the cost of the custom packaging?  Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Moderator
United States
157664 Posts |
Quote: Hey All, first post here as a new member! Been stacking physical silver, all RCM stuff for 3 years now.  to the Community, atc250r!
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Replies: 26 / Views: 4,177 |
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Posted 09/30/2022 08:35 am
