Author |
Replies: 11 / Views: 635 |
|
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
11023 Posts |
I debated where to place this one - either in the US Commemorative forum due to its potential to be considered as a circulating commemorative OR in the US Classic forum - I decided to post it here in the US Classic area as I ultimately decided that it was more germane to the standard circulating US silver dollar vs. being a commemorative piece. Let me know if you agree or disagree!In January 1919, two months after the World War I Armistice was signed on November 11, 1918, Thomas David Schall (R-MN) introduced a bill in the House of Representatives that called for a change in one of the mottoes that was present on the US Silver Dollar (at that time, the "Morgan" Dollar). Schall sought to replace "E Pluribus Unum" ("From many, one") with "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity." The phrase "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" was/is the national motto of France; it dates to the time of the French Revolution (~1788). France and the US were allies in World War I, continuing a national-level friendship that dated to the days of the American Revolution. Schall proposed the motto swap as he believed: 1) Most Americans were unfamiliar with the proper translation of the Latin motto; and 2) A small tribute to France on our silver dollars would further enhance the friendship and strengthen the bonds between the two countries. His first assertion is a technically valid one, his second is much more subject to debate. Upon its introduction, Schall's bill was referred to the House Committee on Coinage, Weights, and Measures. The bill did not get reported out by the Committee, and thus was never considered further in the House. As no companion bill was introduced in the Senate, such a proposed motto change was never considered in the chamber. Note: At the time of the bill's introduction, the US was not actively minting silver dollars - and hadn't since 1904 - though this situation would change in 1921.1921-S Morgan Silver Dollar (Image Credit: PCGS CoinFacts. Fair use, education.)As part of its reporting on Schall's bill, the February 1919 issue of The Numismatist. the official publication of the American Numismatic Association, offered its opinion on the potential motto change: "If there is one thing more than another that should be kept typical of a nation it is its coins. There are other methods of showing our friendship for another nation than by adopting its national motto. however much we may admire the principles or sentiments for which it stands. Our other silver coins are now handsome and thoroughly American in every detail. Let us keep them so." I agree. I would not have supported adopting the French National Motto for use on our coins, silver dollars or otherwise, had I been around at the time. IMO, doing so would have given the impression that the US was somehow subservient to France, a situation that was not accurate. For other of my topics on commemorative coins and medals, including many more What If? stories, see: Commems Collection. Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
94367 Posts |
Thanks as alwasys, most informative.
|
Moderator
 United States
157664 Posts |
Very interesting!  Now, if they were proposing to replace IGWT instead, this would have received my vote.  As for the forum placement, it should remain here as you reasoned. 
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
As a one year issue maybe, but E Pluribus Unum had such a long history on our coins (since 1786) that permanently replacing it with something French probably didn't get much serious attention. Interesting tidbit though!
|
Moderator
 United States
64151 Posts |
I was wondering why you posted it here, now it makes sense. Thanks for the commentary on this coin.
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
2893 Posts |
Thanks, commems, I think you put it in the proper forum! I fully agree with the statement made by the ANA at the time. That was not an appropriate proposal by Rep. Schall. I do find his first point somewhat valid (most Americans were unfamiliar with the proper translation), but I strongly suspect a far higher percentage of folks back then knew the translation than they do now. 100 years ago, Latin was more widely taught, even at the high school level.
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
13258 Posts |
Excellent thread @commems. I agree with the forums view on placement and also that it was appropriate to not move forward with the proposed motto change.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.artToo many hobbies .... too much work .... not enough time.
|
Moderator
 United States
157664 Posts |
Quote: I do find his first point somewhat valid (most Americans were unfamiliar with the proper translation), but I strongly suspect a far higher percentage of folks back then knew the translation than they do now. 100 years ago, Latin was more widely taught, even at the high school level. I agree, or even thirty to forty years ago. Some of my high school classmates wrote Latin phrases in my yearbooks. I doubt we would see that today, more likely references to some meme or another. 
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Even without having any Latin classes, I knew what E Pluribus Unum meant from a very young age. They must have taught it in civics class or something similar. Thinking about it some more, his proposal seems odd. To really honor France, you'd put "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" instead of translating it, and if language skills were the primary concern, why not just propose "Out of Many, One" instead? It wouldn't take up any more space on a coin.
|
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
  United States
11023 Posts |
Apparently, at the time he introduced his bill, Representative Schall reported that it was a common belief among the American general public that "E Pluribus Unum" was Latin for "In God We Trust."
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
|
Moderator
 United States
157664 Posts |
Quote: Apparently, at the time he introduced his bill, Representative Schall reported that it was a common belief among the American general public that "E Pluribus Unum" was Latin for "In God We Trust." 
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12041 Posts |
In the 1920s in the United States, there was no such thing as a universal public education. We very much take it for granted these days that our kids can get a K-12 education and have a chance to attend a college or university or trade school.
Wealthy parents sent their male children for boarding at private schools, where they studied the Classical Trivium of Logic, Rhetoric, and Grammar. Those students would have learned Classical Latin as a matter of course and/or Ancient Greek as well, with additional studies perhaps in mathematics, physical sciences, and history. Young ladies were sent for boarding at private "finishing schools" where they learned etiquette, housekeeping skills, cooking, sewing, and correspondence (writing/note taking.) Unless you had the means, or a wealthy benefactor, this was very expensive, although some of the religious schools (Jesuits, Catholics, etc.) sometimes offered an alternative and more affordable path to getting a grade-school education. Colleges and universities were often by and large the exclusive domain of the wealthiest Americans. Trade schools sometimes took on students with an offer of a practical education in exchange for unpaid labor as an apprentice.
Cities and larger towns had schools, but the country was still in the process of industrializing even after WWI. As you got further and further away from the cities, and their relative prosperity, out into the farms and dairies and working fields, school was a privilege, if not a luxury, usually a small schoolhouse serving all student grades, and as soon as children got old enough many were put to work, meaning that a 6th grade education was often the upper limit for families without the means to send their children to private schools or provide tutoring from governesses and masters. The churches provided some education for youths, especially in terms of music and theology.
Even as late as the early 1920s there were not many improved roads outside of cities, and so even if parents did have the means to send their children off to school, unless there was a suitable school within a few miles nearby, or one that offered boarding, there were few ways for their children to safely and affordably travel. Despite the vaunted affordability of the Model T, a car was still a large investment for any family to make, or a tractor too for that matter. You must also consider that family sizes were often much larger than they are now, on average, with many families having three or more children, at a minimum.
The result was that ca. 1920 if you were to sample, say, 1000 adults below 30, you would find that their level of education was directly proportionate to household income or endowments from trusts/inheritances, the places where they lived, their race, and their gender. By the time you got out to the deep heartland of the country, where power and clean running water were still far from guaranteed, functional illiteracy among adults or a lack of literacy beyond a 5th or 6th grade was still the norm, since many children were busy working after that and did not have the means nor the time to attend school. A few of the brighter ones were able to teach themselves if they had access to books -- libraries were a big city thing, so books came from the church, or from travellers, or the "book ladies" that would sometimes come by, drop off a few books and pick up others.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
|
|
Replies: 11 / Views: 635 |
|
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use
|
Coin Community Forum |
© 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Forums |
It took 0.69 seconds to rattle this change. |
 |
|