Coin Community Family of Web Sites
300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Ken's Numismatic eBay Store US and World Coins, Bullion, and Exonumia. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall
Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Counterfeit Detection: 1825 Bavaria Coronation Thaler

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 3 / Views: 810Next Topic  
Press Manager
Learn More...
CCFPress's Avatar
United States
1420 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2022  5:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CCFPress to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
NGC - Two transfer-die forgeries share the same "repeating depressions."

In numismatics, there is a constant battle against the proliferation of counterfeits. With technology advancing at an exponential rate, the counterfeiters are unfortunately able to more accurately replicate collectible coins.

This arms race between counterfeiters and authenticators is making the coin market an increasingly dangerous place. Most notably, there has recently been an increase in high-quality transfer die counterfeits into the marketplace. These fakes are made by essentially cloning a genuine coin. One such example of a coin that has been "cloned" in this way is the 1825 Bavaria Coronation Thaler (below).


The obverses of two counterfeit 1825 Bavaria Coronation Thalers

It is clear from the photos above that these are two very different coins. There are many differing marks and scratches, and the toning is different on both. However, note the areas circled in red. These highlight marks and abrasions that are not inherent to the original design of the coin and yet are still visible on two separate examples.

Authenticators know that it is extremely unlikely for two genuine coins to have contact marks in the exact same locations, so if two coins show identical abrasions, there is a very good chance that they are fake. These recurring marks are known as "repeating depressions" and are commonly seen on transfer die counterfeits. They occur when any abrasions or imperfections on the "host" coin are transferred to the false die. These imperfections are then struck directly into every coin those counterfeit dies strike.

Sometimes it can be difficult to ascertain whether or not a mark on a coin is repeating or not without having two examples side by side. However, there are some signs that can be helpful in identifying repeaters. Often, repeating depressions are shallower than normal dings and scratches on a coin. Additionally, they will often show original mint luster inside of the marks where none would normally exist. Lastly, transfer die fakes are often cleaned by the counterfeiters in order to hide their nefarious origin, as the surfaces are not the same as the original coins.


The reverses of two counterfeit 1825 Bavaria Coronation Thalers

The reverses of these two pieces actually have even more repeating depressions than the obverses. Note the long scratch through the tablecloth and robe that can be seen on both pieces, as well as the scratches to the right of "OCTOBER." There are many more repeaters that were not circled on these images; the host coin must have been relatively low quality.

Transfer die counterfeits are one of the most deceptive types of counterfeit coins. The counterfeiters have focused especially heavily on 19th century German 1 and 2 Thaler coins. If you are not completely comfortable in your authentication skills, it is a good idea to buy coins already authenticated and graded by NGC, as they are guaranteed to be authentic.

Read More: Counterfeit Detection Series
Check 1825 Bavaria Coronation Thalers on ebay.
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21593 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2022  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If a collector is presented with only one example, he is unable to make a comparison, and thus it is much more difficult to prove counterfeit.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1805 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2022  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've pictured & documented common marks on a number of known coin fakes. But is it not possible that some flaws are actually on the dies, so it is only right that these marks end up on legitimate coins? I mean that there should be more to support being counterfeit than just shared marks alone.
Valued Member
newguy22's Avatar
United States
277 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2022  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What about metal composition? Are there any key markers that a collector could look for to tell the difference between a genuine piece and a counterfeit? Are these counterfeits generally made with rounds that closely match the composition of the coins they are trying to imitate?

This is absolutely terrifying....
  Previous TopicReplies: 3 / Views: 810Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.28 seconds to rattle this change. Forums